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Author Topic: Unit Cost Rebalance  (Read 8487 times)

MaGoff

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Re: Unit Cost Rebalance
« Reply #165 on: January 30, 2018, 12:04:24 pm »

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Graystoak

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Re: Unit Cost Rebalance
« Reply #166 on: January 30, 2018, 12:43:08 pm »

Cool, letís get it out there!
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Graystoak

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Re: Unit Cost Rebalance
« Reply #167 on: February 05, 2018, 07:47:45 pm »

We played four games of gridless over the weekend, three with our amended APís & one rematch using the original APís.

The rematch was Red Guard Vs Wehrmacht 100pts and we definitely felt the difference after shifting back to the original APís. However I would say that particular line up is the most imbalanced from what Iíve seen.

We also played Spetsnaz Vs USMC and Steel Guard Vs USMC. We donít generally use flyers but my opponent brought a helicopter with a Merc Squad and S1 Yana inside and it really messed up my day!

On the whole though we were pretty happy with the balance of our games.
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MaGoff

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Re: Unit Cost Rebalance
« Reply #168 on: February 08, 2018, 10:27:23 am »

The rematch was Red Guard Vs Wehrmacht 100pts and we definitely felt the difference after shifting back to the original APís.
Interesting stuff!

Can you elaborate a bit more on the differencies?
How did your lists change when going from CSAP back to official costs?
Were there any surprising or unforseen things that popped up?
Any particular unit that over/under performed in the different games?
What does your opponent think of the CSAP for the SSU units?
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Graystoak

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Re: Unit Cost Rebalance
« Reply #169 on: February 08, 2018, 08:33:57 pm »

The mission we played was a slight variation of Reload, which we played using short edge deployment on a 5x4 city fight board that we have been building from the old FF tenement buildings. It has a total of eight buildings or ruins as well as a large central building (40cm square approx), so itís pretty built up.

Our first game used the amended points, I played Axis Block vs SSU Block. The Axis walkers consisting of two Jagdluthers and a Ludwig forming a Kampfgruppe, as well as a supporting Hans and Herman, took pot shots at the SSU troops wherever possible. This wasnít devastating due to the cover but it thinned their numbers while I managed to keep most of the Axis infantry alive.

My opponent made the mistake of moving up to the windows of the central building on his side, eventually leading to Manfred and a squad of Engineer Grenadiers moving into the building and firing on them. I stormed the central objective for the win on turn 3, although we subsequently realised it shouldíve been turn four!

We both felt the SSU couldíve played it better and my opponent wanted a rematch so I suggested we took the opportunity to play again with the official points.

In our second game we both played more cautiously, attempting to preserve our troops for the end game while our vehicles vied for dominance (the central building had no entrances big enough for vehicles to enter so vehicles became relatively expendable).
I had one less light walker (the Herman), and really missed its assistance on my left flank where it had been deployed in the previous game.

The SSU took the same force as before but was able to field an additional hero, Koshka, who piloted one of the two Natashaís (supported by a Red Thunder and a Lavrenity). As in the previous game my opponent also had Yakov and Red Yana leading Red Guard Assault unitís.

This time the SSU advanced steadily until they were drawn into attacking my Ludwig who was attempting to outflank them. This attack was coordinated with the two Natashas before Red Yana and her unit joined them a turn later. The combined grenade fire punished my infantry units to a point that it was clear by turn 4 that the Axis would be unable to win (I think I had a Command Squad and two Grenadiers left!)

Although both games concluded in turn 4 the SSU caused far more destruction to the Axis army in our second game than I had achieved in the first.

Man of the match goes to Yakov and his Assault Squad who were almost unstoppable once they engaged and as ever the Natashas took longer to put down than is reasonable for a 9 AP unit! On the other side of the fence the Sturmgrenadier seem very pricy against the Red Army unitís, although it must be said that the panzerfaust come in very handy!

To conclude, I think my opponent could have spent his extra points more wisely in our second game. I felt I got off fairly lightly as he couldíve brought an additional unit to the table rather than adding a pilot to an already formidable, and in this scenario, disposable vehicle. In the 2nd game the SSU pretty much gained what the Axis lost, around 8APís. That doesnít sound like a lot but an 8% shift each way is visibly noticeable and we both agreed that the game snowballed once the SSU were able to launch an attack on all fronts.

Iím not saying the amended points are perfect. I donít think you could balance any game perfectly, especially with such a low base line.  However they are certainly more balanced than the official, at least when lining up these two factions.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 08:46:05 pm by Graystoak »
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Graystoak

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Re: Unit Cost Rebalance
« Reply #170 on: February 09, 2018, 09:27:56 am »

My opponent (Fil), said he had just 7 additional points to spend in the second game, exactly the cost of Koshka.

Having checked my own lists I see that I only needed to drop 6 to make my force legal. I dropped the Heinrich (7AP amended). In a game of 100 points these are relatively small variations but it did allow the SSU to gain a unit while the Axis lost one.
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MaGoff

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Re: Unit Cost Rebalance
« Reply #171 on: February 09, 2018, 03:38:02 pm »

In a game of 100 points these are relatively small variations but it did allow the SSU to gain a unit while the Axis lost one.
Thanks for the detailed report!

7+6 = 13 AP shift between the two games and a shift of 2 Activations (+1 for SSU and -1 for Axis). That is actually a big deal and exactly what i was hoping for when we started the Rebalancing. I can't tell you how many times I've played against SSU and felt that they had 1-2 Activations too much (that feeling also comes when I play against NDAK or USMC btw).

I'm happy that, so far, it looks like we're on the right track with the AP adjustments  :)
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